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	<title>Comments on: Debt Deluge &#8211; Modified Debt Snowball</title>
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	<description>Debt Reduction Rocks - We Are Living Debt Free!</description>
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		<title>By: Steve in MA</title>
		<link>http://www.ncnblog.com/2009/01/15/debt-deluge-modified-debt-snowball/comment-page-1/#comment-175365</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve in MA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Sep 2009 05:47:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ncnblog.com/?p=2095#comment-175365</guid>
		<description>@ Taylor.

I too have only large debts. So progress month to month seems incremental and it will be 20 more months until I see a debt be terminated.

There are two ways to motivate yourself here:

1) Define and learn to feel success in just staying in your budget and executing your plan. Every month is a success, in other words, because every month you kill a chunk of that debt.

2) You can subdivide the debt into various parts. For example, if you owe $7000, divide it into chunks large enough to be paid off in three months.  So if you put $600 on it, divide the debt into 7000/1800 or four chunks of $1800.

Make a chart of the debt with the four chunks sectioned out in black outline. 

Mentally or phusically celebrate every three months when you kill one of those chunks.

In my case, the chunks are close to $1000 and I kill one every 3 months.

I hope this perspective helps.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Taylor.</p>
<p>I too have only large debts. So progress month to month seems incremental and it will be 20 more months until I see a debt be terminated.</p>
<p>There are two ways to motivate yourself here:</p>
<p>1) Define and learn to feel success in just staying in your budget and executing your plan. Every month is a success, in other words, because every month you kill a chunk of that debt.</p>
<p>2) You can subdivide the debt into various parts. For example, if you owe $7000, divide it into chunks large enough to be paid off in three months.  So if you put $600 on it, divide the debt into 7000/1800 or four chunks of $1800.</p>
<p>Make a chart of the debt with the four chunks sectioned out in black outline. </p>
<p>Mentally or phusically celebrate every three months when you kill one of those chunks.</p>
<p>In my case, the chunks are close to $1000 and I kill one every 3 months.</p>
<p>I hope this perspective helps.</p>
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		<title>By: Erica</title>
		<link>http://www.ncnblog.com/2009/01/15/debt-deluge-modified-debt-snowball/comment-page-1/#comment-149245</link>
		<dc:creator>Erica</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Mar 2009 14:31:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ncnblog.com/?p=2095#comment-149245</guid>
		<description>In a common property state such as Wisconsin, my irresponsible spouse put me in debt.  I am  responsible for his debt as he has access to my frugal savings. Unjust but true. So I am stuck with his mess and using my assets to get out of it. This was done when I was incapacitated.  I do have my own accounts which he cannot access. I have never been in bad debt in my life. So getting out of this mess is straining not only the finances. Our credit it stellar but the 0% offers have dried up. I have locked in as many as possible at low rates. Also the equity in the house has dropped as it has  all over the nation. Thanks Dubya. Thusly any extra on the mortgage is negated by the lost equity. So it is nose to the grindstone on fixed disability income. If I bag him I lose half of my hard earned, saved, and invested portfolio. These methods are of great help, but I have been doing this since I discovered the disaster upon regaining my health. Slow and steady wins the race. Impatience breeds aberrant  behavior such as immediate gratification. Stay the course and keep chipping away at that principle. A tiny ax over time will fell the greatest oak.  =0} Keep on keeping on. Keep your eye on the prize.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In a common property state such as Wisconsin, my irresponsible spouse put me in debt.  I am  responsible for his debt as he has access to my frugal savings. Unjust but true. So I am stuck with his mess and using my assets to get out of it. This was done when I was incapacitated.  I do have my own accounts which he cannot access. I have never been in bad debt in my life. So getting out of this mess is straining not only the finances. Our credit it stellar but the 0% offers have dried up. I have locked in as many as possible at low rates. Also the equity in the house has dropped as it has  all over the nation. Thanks Dubya. Thusly any extra on the mortgage is negated by the lost equity. So it is nose to the grindstone on fixed disability income. If I bag him I lose half of my hard earned, saved, and invested portfolio. These methods are of great help, but I have been doing this since I discovered the disaster upon regaining my health. Slow and steady wins the race. Impatience breeds aberrant  behavior such as immediate gratification. Stay the course and keep chipping away at that principle. A tiny ax over time will fell the greatest oak.  =0} Keep on keeping on. Keep your eye on the prize.</p>
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		<title>By: Brigitte</title>
		<link>http://www.ncnblog.com/2009/01/15/debt-deluge-modified-debt-snowball/comment-page-1/#comment-147277</link>
		<dc:creator>Brigitte</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Feb 2009 08:11:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ncnblog.com/?p=2095#comment-147277</guid>
		<description>I guess what I did was really this, to an extent. 3 cards, all with similar interest rates. Paid off the lowest balance first, then the two other cards both had similar balances. 2 cards, similar balances (within $10 of each other), similar rates... I started paying of the one with the rewards system first, so that I can use it responsibly once I get the other one paid off.

My only problem with the debt snowball is that you knock off the first debt--GREAT! But then it takes longer and longer to knock out succeeding debts. You could easily lose motivation and enthusiasm mid-train, whereas if you knock out the highest balance first, each subsequent one goes away a lot faster.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess what I did was really this, to an extent. 3 cards, all with similar interest rates. Paid off the lowest balance first, then the two other cards both had similar balances. 2 cards, similar balances (within $10 of each other), similar rates&#8230; I started paying of the one with the rewards system first, so that I can use it responsibly once I get the other one paid off.</p>
<p>My only problem with the debt snowball is that you knock off the first debt&#8211;GREAT! But then it takes longer and longer to knock out succeeding debts. You could easily lose motivation and enthusiasm mid-train, whereas if you knock out the highest balance first, each subsequent one goes away a lot faster.</p>
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		<title>By: Rini</title>
		<link>http://www.ncnblog.com/2009/01/15/debt-deluge-modified-debt-snowball/comment-page-1/#comment-146617</link>
		<dc:creator>Rini</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Feb 2009 22:24:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ncnblog.com/?p=2095#comment-146617</guid>
		<description>We are in the process of using something similar to the Debt Deluge - except we used more breaks in our list...  We first broke it down by type of debt - we&#039;re paying off credit cards, then auto loans, then student loans.  Then we broke the credit card category down by &quot;balance range&quot; - the ones $1000 or less in the first category, then the ones ~$3000, then the higher ones.  This division worked for our specific balances and made very close-knit groups.  Finally, we ordered each sub-group by interest rate.  

We just made the last payment on a debt that started at $3800, at 30% interest.  Now we&#039;re starting on a $3000 debt at 17% interest.  When we finish it, we&#039;ll tackle the (currently) $2100 debt at 10% interest.

Yes, we could have paid off that $2100 debt more quickly - but the difference in payoff time wasn&#039;t big enough to be worth the TRIPLE interest rate to us.  (We got a much higher &quot;minimum payment&quot; added to our snowball this way, as well, due to the higher interest rate!)  On the other hand, if we had tried to pay off that $3800 card before getting rid of the little $500 and $200 store cards, we never would have felt like we were making progress in the early days!

So yes, I like the Debt Deluge - BUT I wouldn&#039;t limit myself to drawing a line &quot;in the middle&quot; of the debt list.  I would instead group the debts by balance into however many groups make sense based on the balance distribution.  Specifically, if it were me, I would pay off the $5,000 debt before the $12,000 in the scenario you provided.  $1700 to $12000 is a BIG jump in the amount of time between payoffs, and it would be easy to get discouraged looking at that situation...  But I&#039;d still get that $12k one out of the way before touching the $10k!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We are in the process of using something similar to the Debt Deluge &#8211; except we used more breaks in our list&#8230;  We first broke it down by type of debt &#8211; we&#8217;re paying off credit cards, then auto loans, then student loans.  Then we broke the credit card category down by &#8220;balance range&#8221; &#8211; the ones $1000 or less in the first category, then the ones ~$3000, then the higher ones.  This division worked for our specific balances and made very close-knit groups.  Finally, we ordered each sub-group by interest rate.  </p>
<p>We just made the last payment on a debt that started at $3800, at 30% interest.  Now we&#8217;re starting on a $3000 debt at 17% interest.  When we finish it, we&#8217;ll tackle the (currently) $2100 debt at 10% interest.</p>
<p>Yes, we could have paid off that $2100 debt more quickly &#8211; but the difference in payoff time wasn&#8217;t big enough to be worth the TRIPLE interest rate to us.  (We got a much higher &#8220;minimum payment&#8221; added to our snowball this way, as well, due to the higher interest rate!)  On the other hand, if we had tried to pay off that $3800 card before getting rid of the little $500 and $200 store cards, we never would have felt like we were making progress in the early days!</p>
<p>So yes, I like the Debt Deluge &#8211; BUT I wouldn&#8217;t limit myself to drawing a line &#8220;in the middle&#8221; of the debt list.  I would instead group the debts by balance into however many groups make sense based on the balance distribution.  Specifically, if it were me, I would pay off the $5,000 debt before the $12,000 in the scenario you provided.  $1700 to $12000 is a BIG jump in the amount of time between payoffs, and it would be easy to get discouraged looking at that situation&#8230;  But I&#8217;d still get that $12k one out of the way before touching the $10k!</p>
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		<title>By: AmericasChoiceCredit</title>
		<link>http://www.ncnblog.com/2009/01/15/debt-deluge-modified-debt-snowball/comment-page-1/#comment-143854</link>
		<dc:creator>AmericasChoiceCredit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jan 2009 19:17:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ncnblog.com/?p=2095#comment-143854</guid>
		<description>This was really a great post, and this blog is really boosting my knowledge in the financial industry which is a great help as I run several credit websites such as http://www.americaschoicecredit.com, making it very important to get all the up to date finance info I can. Good luck to everyone in the new year.

P.S. I definitely recommend subscribing to this blog&#039;s feeds, they are a wealth of information.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This was really a great post, and this blog is really boosting my knowledge in the financial industry which is a great help as I run several credit websites such as <a href="http://www.americaschoicecredit.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.americaschoicecredit.com</a>, making it very important to get all the up to date finance info I can. Good luck to everyone in the new year.</p>
<p>P.S. I definitely recommend subscribing to this blog&#8217;s feeds, they are a wealth of information.</p>
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		<title>By: kitty</title>
		<link>http://www.ncnblog.com/2009/01/15/debt-deluge-modified-debt-snowball/comment-page-1/#comment-143732</link>
		<dc:creator>kitty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Jan 2009 17:34:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ncnblog.com/?p=2095#comment-143732</guid>
		<description>Disclaimer: I&#039;ve never had consumer debt and I am good at math. I also have money - enough to pay off all of the amounts listed in the post above with a single check. But guess what - if I had the debts listed above, I might&#039;ve even considered keeping the debt B (3.9%) until this low interest rate holds as a hedge against inflation: I have a municipal bond that pays me 5% in interest tax free). So this is a point of view of someone who may be not &quot;rich&quot; but at least is &quot;comfortable&quot;.

As a math major, I am really bothered by people&#039;s paying off low interest debt first because of &quot;psychology&quot;. I don&#039;t like wasting money, and to me any interest that is higher than what I can get on fixed income (!) investments is wasted money. I also don&#039;t separate money into buckets - debt vs savings. To me it is a single pool of money - savings, investments and debt - some positive and some negatives, and the idea is to maximize the total not individual pieces.

So instead of following a plan that results in wasted money, why not change one&#039;s way of thinking? Instead of looking at each debt as individual entity, why not add up the numbers every month? This way, you can get a real satisfaction of your total debt load decreasing along with your monthly payments. Yes in the example above, the difference is not that large. But what if your largest debt had been at 29%? Then by the time you finish paying off small low interest rate debts, your large debt could grow by more than what you&#039;d have paid off.

There are other considerations too - if 3.9% expires and may go up - pay it off before the rate expires. 

Another thing - why not just get a 0% credit card and transfer everything there? Then you could comfortably pay the total for a year. A month before 0% expires you could transfer to another 0% and repeat. Needless to say you shouldn&#039;t add to your balance in the meantime. Shuffling 0% balances, by the way, is what my friend did when she needed to pay for her mother&#039;s cancer medication. Gave her mother 2 extra years of good quality life yet never paid a penny in interest. This friend is a millionaire now, by the way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Disclaimer: I&#8217;ve never had consumer debt and I am good at math. I also have money &#8211; enough to pay off all of the amounts listed in the post above with a single check. But guess what &#8211; if I had the debts listed above, I might&#8217;ve even considered keeping the debt B (3.9%) until this low interest rate holds as a hedge against inflation: I have a municipal bond that pays me 5% in interest tax free). So this is a point of view of someone who may be not &#8220;rich&#8221; but at least is &#8220;comfortable&#8221;.</p>
<p>As a math major, I am really bothered by people&#8217;s paying off low interest debt first because of &#8220;psychology&#8221;. I don&#8217;t like wasting money, and to me any interest that is higher than what I can get on fixed income (!) investments is wasted money. I also don&#8217;t separate money into buckets &#8211; debt vs savings. To me it is a single pool of money &#8211; savings, investments and debt &#8211; some positive and some negatives, and the idea is to maximize the total not individual pieces.</p>
<p>So instead of following a plan that results in wasted money, why not change one&#8217;s way of thinking? Instead of looking at each debt as individual entity, why not add up the numbers every month? This way, you can get a real satisfaction of your total debt load decreasing along with your monthly payments. Yes in the example above, the difference is not that large. But what if your largest debt had been at 29%? Then by the time you finish paying off small low interest rate debts, your large debt could grow by more than what you&#8217;d have paid off.</p>
<p>There are other considerations too &#8211; if 3.9% expires and may go up &#8211; pay it off before the rate expires. </p>
<p>Another thing &#8211; why not just get a 0% credit card and transfer everything there? Then you could comfortably pay the total for a year. A month before 0% expires you could transfer to another 0% and repeat. Needless to say you shouldn&#8217;t add to your balance in the meantime. Shuffling 0% balances, by the way, is what my friend did when she needed to pay for her mother&#8217;s cancer medication. Gave her mother 2 extra years of good quality life yet never paid a penny in interest. This friend is a millionaire now, by the way.</p>
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		<title>By: triple-e</title>
		<link>http://www.ncnblog.com/2009/01/15/debt-deluge-modified-debt-snowball/comment-page-1/#comment-143729</link>
		<dc:creator>triple-e</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Jan 2009 17:04:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ncnblog.com/?p=2095#comment-143729</guid>
		<description>What about the more emotional balance.  Leave the 900 first, because it will benefit you the most by getting one done.  Then, pick the next most rewarding.  Is the high interest rate bothering you?  Then take the 12% rate loan and get rid of it.  Is the 1700 getting to you?  Do that one.  Is there one that falls between these extremes?  Or is there a minimum payment that is painful?  Take that out.  No matter what order you put your debts in, it doesn&#039;t really matter.  Probably not too much to Dave either.  What matters is the constant of paying extra to the loans and getting rid of them.  Making good enough progress throughout so that you can feel like you are getting out of debt, and not worrying about the numbers too much, since in the end, it will be a matter of months different for most people, so just do it!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What about the more emotional balance.  Leave the 900 first, because it will benefit you the most by getting one done.  Then, pick the next most rewarding.  Is the high interest rate bothering you?  Then take the 12% rate loan and get rid of it.  Is the 1700 getting to you?  Do that one.  Is there one that falls between these extremes?  Or is there a minimum payment that is painful?  Take that out.  No matter what order you put your debts in, it doesn&#8217;t really matter.  Probably not too much to Dave either.  What matters is the constant of paying extra to the loans and getting rid of them.  Making good enough progress throughout so that you can feel like you are getting out of debt, and not worrying about the numbers too much, since in the end, it will be a matter of months different for most people, so just do it!</p>
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		<title>By: Eric J. Nisall</title>
		<link>http://www.ncnblog.com/2009/01/15/debt-deluge-modified-debt-snowball/comment-page-1/#comment-143722</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric J. Nisall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Jan 2009 13:42:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ncnblog.com/?p=2095#comment-143722</guid>
		<description>I happened to come up with a more specific plan of action a few weeks ago in a post called &lt;a href=&quot;http://letsblogmoney.com/2008/12/17/try-taking-a-different-approach-to-paying-down-debt/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Try Taking A Different Approach to Paying Down Debt&lt;/a&gt;.

I think that both Flexo&#039;s view and Mr. Ramsey&#039;s view a only partial looks at the same situation.  While it may be a psychological advantage to list debt in order of balance or interest rate, there is one important aspect that both theories fail to address: the overall effect of interest on a balance.  By taking an extended look at one&#039;s debt, they can see which debts are truly costing them more in terms of compounding interest as time goes on.  Sometimes a mid-level balance combined with a mid-level interest rate will end up incurring higher interest charges going forward than any of the other debt obligations depending on the situations. 

I think it is too simple to pay down debt based on surface numbers, such as balance or interest rate, even though it is easier to see the effects of the effort.  People would be better off eliminating the debt which is costing the most in additional interest first, which will minimize the the additional interest charges being applied going forward.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I happened to come up with a more specific plan of action a few weeks ago in a post called <a href="http://letsblogmoney.com/2008/12/17/try-taking-a-different-approach-to-paying-down-debt/" rel="nofollow">Try Taking A Different Approach to Paying Down Debt</a>.</p>
<p>I think that both Flexo&#8217;s view and Mr. Ramsey&#8217;s view a only partial looks at the same situation.  While it may be a psychological advantage to list debt in order of balance or interest rate, there is one important aspect that both theories fail to address: the overall effect of interest on a balance.  By taking an extended look at one&#8217;s debt, they can see which debts are truly costing them more in terms of compounding interest as time goes on.  Sometimes a mid-level balance combined with a mid-level interest rate will end up incurring higher interest charges going forward than any of the other debt obligations depending on the situations. </p>
<p>I think it is too simple to pay down debt based on surface numbers, such as balance or interest rate, even though it is easier to see the effects of the effort.  People would be better off eliminating the debt which is costing the most in additional interest first, which will minimize the the additional interest charges being applied going forward.</p>
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		<title>By: MrPlasectomy</title>
		<link>http://www.ncnblog.com/2009/01/15/debt-deluge-modified-debt-snowball/comment-page-1/#comment-143602</link>
		<dc:creator>MrPlasectomy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Jan 2009 13:57:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ncnblog.com/?p=2095#comment-143602</guid>
		<description>Fantastic post and I would have to agree. We are Dave Ramsey followers as well. I have read many financial books about debt, the whole highest interest rate first, list out the debts, etc. Money is such an emotional thing and we believe that Dave has it right and in order to really be successful and make progress you need to bang out a few debts right away or disappointment sets in.

In combination with DR&#039;s plan we do the 0% balance transfer option on the cards we have to reduce the interest rate instead of getting a $100 finance charge and having a minimum payment of $115 on the card does nothing to reduce the balance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fantastic post and I would have to agree. We are Dave Ramsey followers as well. I have read many financial books about debt, the whole highest interest rate first, list out the debts, etc. Money is such an emotional thing and we believe that Dave has it right and in order to really be successful and make progress you need to bang out a few debts right away or disappointment sets in.</p>
<p>In combination with DR&#8217;s plan we do the 0% balance transfer option on the cards we have to reduce the interest rate instead of getting a $100 finance charge and having a minimum payment of $115 on the card does nothing to reduce the balance.</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick</title>
		<link>http://www.ncnblog.com/2009/01/15/debt-deluge-modified-debt-snowball/comment-page-1/#comment-143514</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Jan 2009 23:46:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ncnblog.com/?p=2095#comment-143514</guid>
		<description>Dave, has on occasion recommend someone ignore the balance and get rid of a high interest loan in the case of a payday or title loan. 140% interest is tough to ignore. He has also said to pay the IRS above everyone else regardless of the balance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dave, has on occasion recommend someone ignore the balance and get rid of a high interest loan in the case of a payday or title loan. 140% interest is tough to ignore. He has also said to pay the IRS above everyone else regardless of the balance.</p>
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