Comments on: Facing The Frustrating Realities With Which We Must Deal http://www.ncnblog.com/2008/02/28/facing-the-frustrating-realities-with-which-we-must-deal/ Debt Reduction Rocks - We Are Living Debt Free! Sat, 21 Nov 2009 11:44:22 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: LuxLivingFrugalis http://www.ncnblog.com/2008/02/28/facing-the-frustrating-realities-with-which-we-must-deal/comment-page-1/#comment-96650 LuxLivingFrugalis Mon, 17 Mar 2008 20:29:15 +0000 http://www.ncnblog.com/2008/02/28/facing-the-frustrating-realities-with-which-we-must-deal/#comment-96650 Very well said NCN. Very well said NCN.

]]> By: Debt Free Revolution http://www.ncnblog.com/2008/02/28/facing-the-frustrating-realities-with-which-we-must-deal/comment-page-1/#comment-93054 Debt Free Revolution Sun, 02 Mar 2008 19:52:35 +0000 http://www.ncnblog.com/2008/02/28/facing-the-frustrating-realities-with-which-we-must-deal/#comment-93054 NCN, not sure how I missed this post, other than I've been working the weekend again LOL I too feel a growing unease about the economy. The Fed seems obsessed with cutting the interest rate in hopes of keeping the stock markets propped up, yet I am feeling the pinch of inflation here. People saving money and living within our means seems to be the best way out of this economic malaise, yet the government is actively promoting the exact opposite. We are told we are supposed to spend our way out of this downturn, when what people should really be doing i s save up money and pay down debt. How many more credit "bombs" need to explode before the "conventional wisdom" finally changes? NCN, not sure how I missed this post, other than I’ve been working the weekend again LOL I too feel a growing unease about the economy. The Fed seems obsessed with cutting the interest rate in hopes of keeping the stock markets propped up, yet I am feeling the pinch of inflation here. People saving money and living within our means seems to be the best way out of this economic malaise, yet the government is actively promoting the exact opposite. We are told we are supposed to spend our way out of this downturn, when what people should really be doing i s save up money and pay down debt.

How many more credit “bombs” need to explode before the “conventional wisdom” finally changes?

]]> By: NCN http://www.ncnblog.com/2008/02/28/facing-the-frustrating-realities-with-which-we-must-deal/comment-page-1/#comment-92740 NCN Fri, 29 Feb 2008 18:32:53 +0000 http://www.ncnblog.com/2008/02/28/facing-the-frustrating-realities-with-which-we-must-deal/#comment-92740 Adfecto - Thanks for the considered comment - The debate about the role of government has been around since the (before) founding of our country, so, I'm pretty sure that my one post will not be able to 'sum up' all of the problems we face or the solutions we need. But, it seems obvious, that thet 'safety net' is unsustainable. At some point - when, I'm not sure - there will be more 'users' than there are 'providers'. At that point, massive cuts will be need to be made - or, more than likely - massive tax hikes will be instituted. Those who save, live responsibly, and promote frugality will be 'tapped' to pay for the promises made by our government. As for my aversion to credit - I have no doubt that there are institutions and individuals who borrow and invest with great success - BUT, if they borrow and FAIL then THEY should have to deal with the consequences of their behavior. But, what happens when the government borrows and FAILS? Guess who has to pay for their failures? Bingo - folks like me and you. NCN Adfecto -
Thanks for the considered comment -
The debate about the role of government has been around since the (before) founding of our country, so, I’m pretty sure that my one post will not be able to ’sum up’ all of the problems we face or the solutions we need. But, it seems obvious, that thet ’safety net’ is unsustainable. At some point – when, I’m not sure – there will be more ‘users’ than there are ‘providers’. At that point, massive cuts will be need to be made – or, more than likely – massive tax hikes will be instituted. Those who save, live responsibly, and promote frugality will be ‘tapped’ to pay for the promises made by our government.
As for my aversion to credit – I have no doubt that there are institutions and individuals who borrow and invest with great success – BUT, if they borrow and FAIL then THEY should have to deal with the consequences of their behavior. But, what happens when the government borrows and FAILS? Guess who has to pay for their failures? Bingo – folks like me and you.
NCN

]]> By: Bighonkin http://www.ncnblog.com/2008/02/28/facing-the-frustrating-realities-with-which-we-must-deal/comment-page-1/#comment-92733 Bighonkin Fri, 29 Feb 2008 17:46:31 +0000 http://www.ncnblog.com/2008/02/28/facing-the-frustrating-realities-with-which-we-must-deal/#comment-92733 I know too well the frustrations of the people around me simply refusing to take financial responsibility. Trying to borrow their way out of debt, they have no idea that they're nowhere near living the American Dream. In all honesty, it was NCN who prodded me to get to a place of financial responsibility and stability in my life, and I now try to do the same with those around me. We can take back this country. We can hold our politician's responsible. If they refuse to be financially responsible, let's fire them. Overall, though, this is going to be a grass roots movement and it starts in places like this. I know too well the frustrations of the people around me simply refusing to take financial responsibility. Trying to borrow their way out of debt, they have no idea that they’re nowhere near living the American Dream. In all honesty, it was NCN who prodded me to get to a place of financial responsibility and stability in my life, and I now try to do the same with those around me. We can take back this country. We can hold our politician’s responsible. If they refuse to be financially responsible, let’s fire them. Overall, though, this is going to be a grass roots movement and it starts in places like this.

]]> By: Adfecto http://www.ncnblog.com/2008/02/28/facing-the-frustrating-realities-with-which-we-must-deal/comment-page-1/#comment-92730 Adfecto Fri, 29 Feb 2008 17:35:31 +0000 http://www.ncnblog.com/2008/02/28/facing-the-frustrating-realities-with-which-we-must-deal/#comment-92730 You make some valid points. However, there are a few things I really disagree with you about. You refer to all of the people today who are, "one misstep, one illness, one lost paycheck away from financial ruin," as if this is a NEW thing. For the vast part of human history that precariousness of life and economic stability has been a part of the human condition. In fact, today a much smaller portion of the population lives this way than did those in all previous eras. Today if you get very sick you still have places you can go for food, shelter, medical care, and a minimal disability check to get by and that is a GOOD THING. In the past these people would have been casualties of natural selection. They would have died young and completely impoverished. You also rail against the, "handouts and bailouts," but you must recognize that since the New Deal our country has experienced historical boom in standard of living, productivity, and economic might. By adding a system of safety nets our entrepreneurs are free to take the risks needed to build our society. If I thought that my family could go hungry if my business failed I would never invest. If the system gets tipped too far toward the rich there is often revolt and sometimes war. By giving a helping hand to those at the bottom you also pacify them. The TV makes the balance seem pretty tipped these days so why are we surprised when people start looking for a hand out. You are also binded by your bias against debt so you fail to recognize what an enabler it can be if used correctly. Our government can borrow at low rates from foreigners and use the money to fuel our very productive capitalistic society. Our economy churns out a much higher return on borrowed money than we pay in interest. The same is true for businesses and (some) individuals too. Yes, we have a problem with people miss allocating their resources to flat screen TVs when the should be buying healthy food, durable clothing, and investing for growth. But these people would not succeed in business or investing either. If they miss allocate their money to a flat screen do you think they can figure out how to create jobs or help our economy in any way other than working and spending? We have a class of peasants in America that work to spend and they won't ever get with the program you espouse. I don't blame you for being frustrated but I think we have reached a point in our society where the status quo seem more like an oligarchy. The masses want what everyone else has and it isn't because of a lack of character, it is because of human nature. This same trend has played itself out dozens of times in history. Stop thinking of this as a weakness of those who are unsatisfied and instead start thinking about how to build them up. This turned into a rather long and disjoint comment. I hope it makes enough sense and maybe makes some people think. Thanks for reading and to NCN for starting the discussion. You make some valid points. However, there are a few things I really disagree with you about.

You refer to all of the people today who are, “one misstep, one illness, one lost paycheck away from financial ruin,” as if this is a NEW thing. For the vast part of human history that precariousness of life and economic stability has been a part of the human condition. In fact, today a much smaller portion of the population lives this way than did those in all previous eras.

Today if you get very sick you still have places you can go for food, shelter, medical care, and a minimal disability check to get by and that is a GOOD THING. In the past these people would have been casualties of natural selection. They would have died young and completely impoverished.

You also rail against the, “handouts and bailouts,” but you must recognize that since the New Deal our country has experienced historical boom in standard of living, productivity, and economic might. By adding a system of safety nets our entrepreneurs are free to take the risks needed to build our society. If I thought that my family could go hungry if my business failed I would never invest.

If the system gets tipped too far toward the rich there is often revolt and sometimes war. By giving a helping hand to those at the bottom you also pacify them. The TV makes the balance seem pretty tipped these days so why are we surprised when people start looking for a hand out.

You are also binded by your bias against debt so you fail to recognize what an enabler it can be if used correctly. Our government can borrow at low rates from foreigners and use the money to fuel our very productive capitalistic society. Our economy churns out a much higher return on borrowed money than we pay in interest. The same is true for businesses and (some) individuals too.

Yes, we have a problem with people miss allocating their resources to flat screen TVs when the should be buying healthy food, durable clothing, and investing for growth. But these people would not succeed in business or investing either. If they miss allocate their money to a flat screen do you think they can figure out how to create jobs or help our economy in any way other than working and spending? We have a class of peasants in America that work to spend and they won’t ever get with the program you espouse.

I don’t blame you for being frustrated but I think we have reached a point in our society where the status quo seem more like an oligarchy. The masses want what everyone else has and it isn’t because of a lack of character, it is because of human nature. This same trend has played itself out dozens of times in history. Stop thinking of this as a weakness of those who are unsatisfied and instead start thinking about how to build them up.

This turned into a rather long and disjoint comment. I hope it makes enough sense and maybe makes some people think. Thanks for reading and to NCN for starting the discussion.

]]> By: English Major http://www.ncnblog.com/2008/02/28/facing-the-frustrating-realities-with-which-we-must-deal/comment-page-1/#comment-92721 English Major Fri, 29 Feb 2008 15:56:01 +0000 http://www.ncnblog.com/2008/02/28/facing-the-frustrating-realities-with-which-we-must-deal/#comment-92721 Can't we both criticize big corporations (for promoting the unfeasible system of corporate welfare, for example) AND recognize their important role as employers? Can't we both recognize the real achievements of the wealthy AND discuss the inequalities that are built into the playing field? I just don't think it has to be black-or-white. Can’t we both criticize big corporations (for promoting the unfeasible system of corporate welfare, for example) AND recognize their important role as employers? Can’t we both recognize the real achievements of the wealthy AND discuss the inequalities that are built into the playing field?

I just don’t think it has to be black-or-white.

]]> By: escapee http://www.ncnblog.com/2008/02/28/facing-the-frustrating-realities-with-which-we-must-deal/comment-page-1/#comment-92719 escapee Fri, 29 Feb 2008 15:19:41 +0000 http://www.ncnblog.com/2008/02/28/facing-the-frustrating-realities-with-which-we-must-deal/#comment-92719 At the risk of sounding like an alarmist, I feel something bad coming too. I started feeling *really* uneasy at the end of last year and started saving like a madwoman. Like, NCN, my family has zero debt, so I feel like we can weather the possibly coming storm, but I feel very worried for everyone who won't be able to. It's clear that something is going to have to give, but what will it be and how will everyone cope? At the risk of sounding like an alarmist, I feel something bad coming too. I started feeling *really* uneasy at the end of last year and started saving like a madwoman. Like, NCN, my family has zero debt, so I feel like we can weather the possibly coming storm, but I feel very worried for everyone who won’t be able to.
It’s clear that something is going to have to give, but what will it be and how will everyone cope?

]]> By: boomie http://www.ncnblog.com/2008/02/28/facing-the-frustrating-realities-with-which-we-must-deal/comment-page-1/#comment-92634 boomie Fri, 29 Feb 2008 04:42:06 +0000 http://www.ncnblog.com/2008/02/28/facing-the-frustrating-realities-with-which-we-must-deal/#comment-92634 NCN, Welcome to the new America! It's disgusting isn't it? I've been debt free for 7+ years and all I met along the way were my friends and family who laughed at me and my husband. While we were building our home, without a mortgage, some friends would scoff at how hard DH and I were working. They kept telling us to take out a mortgage, borrow the money "Why suffer?", they used to say. Now, who's suffering? Not us. I just read yesterday that some financial institutions are giving out 401K debit cards. RETIREMENT DRAINING DEBIT CARDS! Since folks can't get credit anymore, no more equity left in their homes, they can now swipe a card and withdraw funds out of their 401K's and go buy that big screen TV. Or if they are having trouble paying their bills they can use the 401K debit card for that. Only thing is, it's really a loan, has to be paid back immediately, so their paychecks get smaller. It's a vicious cycle. When does it end? And what will happen to all these people who borrow and drain out their retirement 401K and retire? Suppose there is no social security to count on? What then? Will this government bail them out?????? I see the same future as you do NCN: an eventual, complete collapse, the likes of which we have never seen before. Only those who live debt free and within their means will be spared. Yikes! NCN,
Welcome to the new America! It’s disgusting isn’t it? I’ve been debt free for 7+ years and all I met along the way were my friends and family who laughed at me and my husband. While we were building our home, without a mortgage, some friends would scoff at how hard DH and I were working. They kept telling us to take out a mortgage, borrow the money “Why suffer?”, they used to say. Now, who’s suffering? Not us.
I just read yesterday that some financial institutions are giving out 401K debit cards. RETIREMENT DRAINING DEBIT CARDS! Since folks can’t get credit anymore, no more equity left in their homes, they can now swipe a card and withdraw funds out of their 401K’s and go buy that big screen TV. Or if they are having trouble paying their bills they can use the 401K debit card for that. Only thing is, it’s really a loan, has to be paid back immediately, so their paychecks get smaller. It’s a vicious cycle. When does it end?
And what will happen to all these people who borrow and drain out their retirement 401K and retire? Suppose there is no social security to count on? What then? Will this government bail them out??????

I see the same future as you do NCN: an eventual, complete collapse, the likes of which we have never seen before. Only those who live debt free and within their means will be spared.
Yikes!

]]> By: mick http://www.ncnblog.com/2008/02/28/facing-the-frustrating-realities-with-which-we-must-deal/comment-page-1/#comment-92633 mick Fri, 29 Feb 2008 04:32:30 +0000 http://www.ncnblog.com/2008/02/28/facing-the-frustrating-realities-with-which-we-must-deal/#comment-92633 Amen! We have more than we need! Time to save. www.crazanity.com Amen!

We have more than we need! Time to save.

http://www.crazanity.com

]]> By: Kate http://www.ncnblog.com/2008/02/28/facing-the-frustrating-realities-with-which-we-must-deal/comment-page-1/#comment-92628 Kate Fri, 29 Feb 2008 04:01:45 +0000 http://www.ncnblog.com/2008/02/28/facing-the-frustrating-realities-with-which-we-must-deal/#comment-92628 Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you! I work for a man who is a billionaire, and an entrepreneur, and he always touts the American entrepreneurial spirit and our ability to achieve anything in this country. He is correct -- but I'm worried for the future. This man is 75 years old, and I'm afraid the America he knew has been supplanted by an America of lazy, Slurpee drinking, video-game-playing, gas guzzler-driving, designer-clothes-wearing, entitlement-happy greedmongers -- who, while they are expecting all their "goodies," in the next breath, whine about the need to "soak the rich!" We're becoming so soft and victimized -- I'm frightened for America's future. Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you! I work for a man who is a billionaire, and an entrepreneur, and he always touts the American entrepreneurial spirit and our ability to achieve anything in this country. He is correct — but I’m worried for the future. This man is 75 years old, and I’m afraid the America he knew has been supplanted by an America of lazy, Slurpee drinking, video-game-playing, gas guzzler-driving, designer-clothes-wearing, entitlement-happy greedmongers — who, while they are expecting all their “goodies,” in the next breath, whine about the need to “soak the rich!” We’re becoming so soft and victimized — I’m frightened for America’s future.

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