Dave never hides the fact that he is a “for-profit” ministry. You simply can not lump him in the same post as Jim Baker: it shows that you really do not get either one of them. The thin pamphlet’s you refer to are all on his web site: the outline of the baby steps, the cash flow worksheets and the budgetting worksheets. There you go. All for free. His website even streams a free radio broadcast. He often does give aways (free FPU classes, books, tickets to live events, etc).

Dave never says that you are going to get 12% back on your investments - he says to look for a good growth stock mutal funds that have been around awhile (20+ years) with an average of 12%. Then, you invest LONG TERM to ride the ups and downs of the market.

Finally, Dave will tell you to stop your investments into retirement (even the 401k) for the purpose of cash flowing. Some times, you are doing a little investing, a littel saving and a little debt reduction. The idea is that if you concentrate on one thing it is not going to take you as long to complete it. The first thing is getting out of debt, the second is giving yourself a nice emergency fund so that you do not go back into debt. You will also hear Dave say that you are only going to stop investing towards retirement for a short period. If you go beyond two years, that is too long. And he doesn’t suggest that.

Anyways, my 2 cents.

The “one size fits all” solutions are obviously going to be inferior technically to more nuanced ones tailored to a specific individual. What I find annoying is his arrogant insistance that his is some sort of pious religious “ministry” rather than simple a good way to make himself a fortune while helping the financially ignorant dig themselves out of their holes.

A religious ministry isn’t a profit making enterprise. Just keep in mind how many from the past (Jim Baker, etc) have used religion to seperate the gullible from their cash. Churches are used as an “in” to get to a receptive audience. Coming in from a secular perspective, he realises that he would face a much more sceptical audience.

Not to say he’s a crook. Just that a thin pamphlet could contain all his ideas, they’re that simple and easy to follow. The multitude of books, tapes, shows, speeches, pep rallies, etc, are done for HIS wallet, not the consumers’.

For the working-class, his plan is right on, except maybe the 401K match. I even agree with getting rid of a car you can’t afford, even if you are underwater. What really turns me off of Dave Ramsey is the junk he advertises. Yuck.

I also don’t think people who take more than 2+ years to pay off debt even in their 20s should stop retirement because that is a long time. If you are taking 5+ years no matter what age you are it’s ridiculous.

Second he’s not realistic to assume a 12%. What happens if the market tanks for 2-3 years? Most financial analysts and advisors say 8% and anything above and beyond is gravy. It’s unrealistic to use that number.

Third, his investment mix is just plain stupid. 25% in large, small, mid-cap, and international mutual funds? Where are the bonds? And is that an appropriate mix for a 45 year old or 55 year old or 65 year old? Stupid. Actually any portfolio without bonds even a 25 year old is dumb. Bonds do not decrease the returns by a lot and actually stabilize the portfolio. Just look at the statistical analysis on fundadvice.com. Even a 10% bond share decrease the beta factor (risk) by 25% and returns decrease by 1%. Investing is not DR’s strong point. But he probably doesn’t do his own investing.

I think Dave sticks with the same advice over and over because if he started making exceptions, the wrong people would take advantage of them and it would derail them from getting their debts wiped out. His program is aimed at an unsophisticated audience–I can relate to that because that would be me a couple of years ago.

As with many things in life, I take from Dave Ramsey what works–the debt snowball works, the need to focus works, the need for an emergency fund works. The rest of his plan works most of the time for most folks–but not all, as you have discovered.